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Thread: HDV vs DVCPRO HD remember me a battle ....

  1. #1
    New User edbeta's Avatar
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    Red face HDV vs DVCPRO HD remember me a battle ....

    HDV give us HD at low cost with a 1 hour recording time use MPEG 2.
    DVCPRO HD / P2 bring HD with less compression , higher cost ,less time.

    two good options or solutions depending on what is your type of shooting.
    MPEG 2 vs INTRA FRAMES compressions battle... both with good points.

    the irony is now we have old rivals SONY & JVC together on HDV , others
    join fast like CANON .... others will follow for sure ..... a common format.
    HDV seem a valid standard from production to distribution common to all.

    on the other side PANASONIC with DVCPRO HD on P2 better HD but P2 is an
    expensive medium of storage with limited recording time 16min for 8 GB.

    the plus or les funny part is you have sony and company with recording time
    at low cost versus panasonic with low recording time at high cost.

    cant help but to remember the BETAMAX vs VHS battle but REVERSED ....
    now the recording time low cost switched to sony and friends...

    and panasonic was pushing recording time at low cost in the now so old
    and gone BETAMAX vs VHS battle ......

    this time i settle to the number of supporters and go HDV ....
    FOR PRO AND CONSUMERS NEEDS....

  2. #2
    Enthusiast MattDavis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edbeta
    this time i settle to the number of supporters and go HDV ....
    FOR PRO AND CONSUMERS NEEDS....
    On the other hand, can we separate 'Origination' (shooting) format from 'Editing' format? Shoot HDV if that's what the job requires, then ingest via HD-SDI (or whatever) to your chosen editing codec.

    As a FCP editor, I like 720p DVCPro-HD but if I were driving an Avid, I'd prefer DNxHD (actually I'd like that on FCP too). I really don't want to edit HDV.

    Right now, I am doing a downconvert from HDV to DVCPro-50 Full Height Anamorphic. Shot on a Z1 against green screen. It's just talking heads, so HDV is WAY better than DVCAM to shoot on. The downsample will put the HDV into a smaller frame yet in a 4:2:2 colour space, and nobody will know it wasn't shot on digibeta.

    OTOH, a friend has a Panny HDX200. His medium is Standard Def. He uses the P2/HD options for Special Effects (usually the slow-mo stuff). He didn't buy it for the HD, just the ability to dub HD to DV, and to film SD at 4:2:2. Meanwhile, we editors should just suck up the rushes into our chosen format.

    Like chefs - we accept that they shoot it, we cut it up and cook it in our kitchens. Whether your kitchen is Camp Fire, Aga or McDonnalds, it's your choice. The way the footage is shot is up to the DoP. If they choose HDV, we hope they don't whip-pan, don't crash-zoom and don't sue if there's a half-second loss of pictures or sound.

    P2 is great for a percentage of filming jobs. In my world, it doesn't work; in my colleague's world, P2 works with a great DV camcorder as temporary storage before commiting to DV tape. For others, they have content shot at 4:2:2, progressive, and at their choice of resolution and frame rate.

    HDV is an origination format. Not an editing or delivery format. Remember Kodachrome? Shoot on Kodachrome by all means (don't exect high shutter speeds). Enjoy the portability of a Leica. Capture a moment that a big 5x4 cannot. Yet the photo will be copied to 5x4 for final editing and use.

    Shooting format should be divorced from delivery format.
    Last edited by MattDavis; 06-03-2006 at 12:47 PM.
    Write, shoot, edit, publish: http://www.mdma.tv

  3. #3
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    Final Cut Pro, unlike other NLEs, handles HDV natively well. When you print-to-tape, however, it will conform the entire timeline to HDV. Depending on your system, this could take a while. For PC NLEs, try CineForm, www.cineform.com which is a GREAT Digital Intermediate.

    mpstrex
    Last edited by mpstrex; 06-30-2006 at 01:40 PM.

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    You can't really lose here. If you want max quality at a premium in the prosumer HD world you go P2/HVX200. If you want to save money and still get a pretty decent picture you go HDV. And both work perfectly well with FCP.

    Noah
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattDavis
    HDV is an origination format. Not an editing or delivery format.
    But HDV can be all of those things with the introduction of high-definition DVDs supporting MPEG2-TS playback. And while editing and delivering HDV in its native MPEG2 form may not be the best solution for a particular project, it's still nice to finally have a digital format which can be used all the way through to delivery to the consumer. That's preferable to being forced to transcode to a different format at a lower bit rate if you don't wish to do so, and with HD DVDs we have a choice of delivering either way. Good stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpstrex
    Final Cut Pro, unlike other NLEs, handles HDV natively well. When you print-to-tape, however, it will conform the entire timeline to HDV. Depending on your system, this could take a while. For PC NLEs, try CineForm, www.cineform.com which is a GREAT Digital Intermediate.

    mpstrex
    sorry if this is newbie stuff but...

    How is this related to final picture quality - If I ingest thro firewire from my sony cam at 1440 by 1080 i 50 I am gettign the native or best resolution?

    I guess thru SDI I am getting a decompressed picture?

    but end of day the same stuff?

    Ie edit the mpeg stuff in fcp - it then conforms it- ( like a render???)

    put it out to tape... no loss?

  7. #7
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    The only way to get uncompressed SDI is if you are using the Canon XL-1H or now the new JVC which has SDI out and then capture live. Once it is committed to tape in the camera, then it is compressed HDV and exporting via SDI will not give you uncompressed HD.

    Ned Soltz
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    I think my query runs more along the lines of...

    I shot on a HDV1080i - I captured via firewirewire.. (1440/1080 50)

    Is this the best image quality I can get from my camera?

    Once I finish editing I plan to dump it to tape thru firewire

    Have I lost anything?

    Would like reassurance or guidance on this issue..

    thanks

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    The answer is simply "yes" and "no". Yes, it is the best quality you can get. No, you don't lose anything going back out firewire to the camera. The only thing you lose is a lot of time since it takes a longgggg time to conform for HDV out over firewire.

    Ned

  10. #10
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    hey ned that's great!

    I tried to do it just now... and it says 14 hours.,,,, gulp!!

    glad I'm not in a rush eh?!!

    suppose the upside is that I'm getting the same out as in....

    guess this leads us to another point tho..

    some of the footage is a bit dark - hence playing with the colour corrector..

    I can preview on my DVI computer mon...

    think I will do a search on this - sounds like a whole new thread? or maybe one is out there waiting for me?

    thankyou

    martin

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