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Thread: Too many clips

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    Default Too many clips

    I just did a shoot with a borrowed HPX to go along with my own DVX. This was my first foray into shooting with P2 cards. Since my main camera was the DVX, the HPX was set for 480, 24P, DV to match the DVX's input. I shot 5 hours of tape and we did a clap-sync of the two cameras with every tape change. Otherwise both cameras ran continuously.

    After some newbie confusion I was finally able to access (I guess "ingest" is the word being used, yes?) the P2 footage but what materialized in the FCP bin after transfer was unexpected. As I said the HPX ran non-stop along with the DVX so I expected five long clips. Instead there were something like fifteen clips of varying length. 3 minutes, seven minutes, eleven minutes, etc. However there was one repetition and that being five or six clips that were 19:50.

    As you can imagine, syncing these clips is becoming fairly nightmarish. I only have a passing familiarity with multi-clip editing making it that much more difficult. I asked my buddy whose HPX I borrowed and he said, yeah, that's happened to him too, but he had no explanation.

    So I ask you 2-poppers, what's the deal with this? And while you're at it, what's with the naming paradigm for the clips? It seems like the camera just generated random number/letter combinations for the file names.

    Thanks

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    Expert BenB's Avatar
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    What version of FCP are you using?
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    It's the very latest...7 point whatever.

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    There was a 5.x or 6.x that was quirky like this, but 7 has be rock solid for me. Technically, yes, the clips are written to the P2 card with about a 3 minute limit, due to it being FAT-32 format, and thus a file size limit. But FCP's Log & Transfer plugin should "span" those to create one long clip.

    As for recording a full hour long live event non-stop, I've always used an FS-100 for that with great success. Never use P2 cards for that sort of duration. Maybe others have, and can comment.

    The file naming system follows a pattern, it means something, to Panasonic at least, but there is an order. Just ignore the last two letters/digits in the name. I always rename them, and fill out proper metadata in the Log & Transfer window. It's just good housekeeping. Even with tape.

    Clip spanning issues, hmmm.... Yep, when we shoot SD with our HVX200, we use tape. You always want to use tape. It's much safer and more stable than tapeless, period. And not just on the HVX, but across the board. Tapeless is not for everyone, not good for long non-stop event shoots, not good for archiving.

    Let me ask, are you reading the clips off the P2 card directly from the card inside the camera, or from a file copy to a hard drive?
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    Interesting viewpoints. I must say, I'm surprised at your take on tape vs. tapeless. I will take it all under advisement. Thanks.

    I dumped data from camera onto FW 800 external HD and worked from "File and Transfer"-derived files.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BenB View Post
    You always want to use tape. It's much safer and more stable than tapeless, period. And not just on the HVX, but across the board. Tapeless is not for everyone, not good for long non-stop event shoots, not good for archiving.
    I agree tapeless is not for everyone, but I don't agree that using tapes is "much safer and more stable than tapeless period."

    In fact, my view is the opposite.
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    Well and I'm also wondering what the drawback of tapeless is in use for long, non-stop events?

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    As for the original post, are you copying from the P2 card inside the camera itself, or from a copy of the files made to a hard drive?
    It could be one of those P2 glitches that pop up every now and then. Or a bad data transfer from the card to a drive. I'd try on another FCP system just to see.

    Hands down a DV tape is more stable, reliable, and much longer shelf life (that you can rely on) than hard drives.

    Digital files become corrupt, not if, but when. Digital files require a back up. Hard drives are more expensive than DV tapes we shoot on, per GB.

    The only reliable tapless shooting backup/archive solution is DLT or LTO tape systems, which are still pretty expensive for most users.

    Shooting long events non-stop with tapeless? You may need to swap out cards, which can interrupt the non-stop event aspect. Files on cards can become corrupt, just like on hard drives, due to so many internal and environmental factors. Tape is not nearly, in fact, hardly susceptible to these influences.

    Larger expensive cards will work (we use 32GB P2 cards), or hard drive based systems like the FS-100 (which I have been using a lot for years now). But these are still pricey for many shooters. And are susceptible to damage way more than tapes.

    But, P2 cards are way more affordable than DVCPRO-HD tape. But then, the cameras using DVCPRO-HD tape are getting much better quality images (much more expensive cameras) than P2 cameras (cheaper cameras).

    Depends on what you're doing. I haven't seen anyone do long live events tapeless without needing to swap out cards than then need to be backed up right away. A tape, yep, swap out a tape, put it in your pocket, done. No realistic need to back up a Mini-DV tape. They're pretty reliable these days. And yes, there have been many instances of CF, P2, and other cards having corrupted data on them. Tapes, well, they're simply more reliable, durable, and have a longer shelf life in the real world.

    And yes, I've been shooting tapeless exclusively for a few years now. And it has been more work, and taken up more money and resources than when we used to shoot to mini-dv tapes. But, it's what everything does now.
    Last edited by BenB; 06-19-2010 at 11:07 AM.
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